New Antiquity Melee Combat System

[Silvanesti Silvera]

Greetings fellow Antiquitians,
I'm quite new to the community, so some of you may not know me just yet.
Foreword
As most members within the community know, Antiquity has been using the SPD melee system for melee combat for some time now, with the latest SPD meter being version 1.52.
I'm sure that many would agree that Antiquity is in need of a new melee solution as is evident in RP events, and from the mere operation of the SPD meter.
At first, my thoughts were that a combat system such as spell fire could be adopted and used instead of the current SPD system. However, as many would agree this presents a few problems. First most, many of the weapons already purchased by Antiquity members would be rendered useless. Furthermore, this option would confine them to use spell fire weapons, meaning more money spent, and builders as well as scripters of Antiquity would not be able to contribute from their expertise. Finally, using such a system would also not be very flexible and we would be confined to the options the actual combat system presents (such as irrelevant classes and roles – druids, elves etc…).
This and more lead me to write this post and layout my vision for the development of a combat system for Antiquity, one that we would build on our own, and one that we can fully customize to fit our special role-playing needs. In order to do this I propose a system that will be open source and I call on all the builders and scripters of the land to join this effort.
Another advantage of this system is the opportunities it brings forth for many members: building weapons (any mod sword will be able to be injected with the new scripts), building of other RP objects (canons, sharks etc.), new ideas, bug fixing, forming new RP methods etc.
The Vision:
What I propose is the development of a combat system custom made for Antiquity, yet general enough to allow for upgrades and future development. Of course the idea is to start small and develop a basic melee system that would include the following simple features:
1. Health and stamina stats and mechanism
2. Alignments/Roles – (pirates, navy etc.)
3. Custom Title Setting option
4. Team support
5. Close combat and ranged weapons support (bladed, gunpowder based)
6. Healing capability via Aid Kits.
7. Simple Control HUD
At this stage, I've decided to keep it at this level of detail in order to hear some feedback from members of the community.
I've already begun to characterize the different modules, and will begin scripting the framework in the coming weeks (depending on RL time constraints ).
I would love to hear feedback of any kind from anyone, and feel free to IM me or leave me a note card if you seek more info or would like to actively participate.
See you on the high seas,

Silv.

[Burnman Bedlam]

I understand the reason for going the open source route. It just isn't appropriate for every type of project.

It is true, Antiquity is a hard sell for a new system. I am developing my system for a larger audience, but compatible with Antiquity's theme and community. If Antiquity decides to adopt my system, wonderful! If not, I will not have wasted my time. ;)

Of course no system can completely enforce fair play, but that doesn't mean give up all attempts at achieving some level of it. There will always be someone who wants the unfair advantage. That mentality exists in every walk of life. All the positive thinking in the world won't change that. Especially not in Second Life.

[Pamus Bing]

The one good thing about SPD-J is it is simple without complex huds. I have used Spellfire that like many other meters contains lots of pointless information. Most people who battle just want to fight then when it all over retire to the nearest tavern and party.
Having said that some of its simplicity is also it greatest downfall, also it does have a tendency to go well into the red before you die, plus reset is to easy to use
Any HUD needs to be small, or in the very least resizable. Plus at the moment not many systems are very good on a horse, for example full use of swords or lances.
Maybe start with a system that is the same as SPD, and slowly introduce upgrades over a period of time, that way any errors can be corrected and the system polished before moving onto the next upgrade

[Silvanesti Silvera]

Thank you for your Reply.
I agree that SPD-J is simple, and that spellfire, among others, does display a lot of "pointless" information as those features are usually not used (some do use them though). However, I disagree regarding the HUD. Spellfire implements a very simple HUD which is very convenient during combat. In addition it is not mandatory to use it, and gestures with shortcut keys can be used instead as well.
Simplicity is a good thing, but a simple meter does not imply simplicity in combat.
For example you could say that the teams feature in spellfire is complex and therefore not needed, but if you even try it in combat i'm sure you would discover how it simplifies things.
In antiquity this could be a huge advantage: people on different teams (not just 2 teams as is usually the case today), would have different color floating text. In addition I would also suggest flags of the team colors at a defined location on each ship. This would simply battles, and also is quite realistic too, because tactical markings have been in use since ancient times for battles.
I would like to point out some of the disadvantages of the SPD-J system as I have experienced them:
1. SPD-J 1.51 regenerates health…?!
2. The system implements an alpha transparent ellipse around the avatar that can be problematic, interfering with other attached objects that need to be accessed.
3. The animations on the SPD-J system are poor, implementing kicks and punches
4. Damage is very unrealistic
5. No HUD option
6. No team feature
7. SPD-J available weapons available on the market are mediocre compared to other systems
8. Resetting of the meter is not visible enough for the surrounding players (can be done secretly)
9. No stamina penalty for injuries or for running/jumping
And the list goes on…

[Silvanesti Silvera]

10. Immensely over-exaggerated unrealistic particle bleeding effects...:)

[Burnman Bedlam]

Ahoy Pamus,

I think one of the reasons so many people are looking for a new system beyond SPD & SPD-J is the overwhelming lack of anything but simplistic point/shoot & hack/slash combat.

Ease of use is absolutely key. HUDs should not be excessively complex, but they should provide as little... or as much... data that the player wants.

I don't think we need another SPD clone. We need a total replacement which offers the simplistic combat we have now, as well as a but more for those who have been looking for it for a long, long time. :)

[Pamus Bing]

SPD has been in Anty for so long it is well know, easy to use. SPD ships will never go away; you only have to look at the resistance to the new SPD ships.
So I am on Britannica wearing one of BBs or SSs brand new meters. Firing SPD cannons at ships that are firing SPD cannons at me I can take the ships out, the ships can take the cannons out. But I still live. When the Ships land on Britannica, there will be a vulnerable point whilst ships crews are changing meters. I hope this explains what I am trying to say.
Weapon wise I have no problem buying new Muskets, Swords, Land cannons. (Apart from Mad Thunder most weapons are reasonable priced)
Personally I am more than willing to try any new combat system, I would love to be able to use a sword on a cavalry horse instead of muskets.
One last question does anyone remember the test wall that could be destroyed? When I first bought Britannica all my defence placements were built from that prim

[Teddy Schumann]

Hi Pam, referring to your statement:

"Personally I am more than willing to try any new combat system, I would love to be able to use a sword on a cavalry horse instead of muskets."

I can tell you that I regularly do use a SPD-J-sword on my cavalry horse and it works both ways: hitting and getting hit (albeit not the horse itself).

[Hell's Captain Slam McMahon]

I hear you, but this is nothing that hasn't already been proposed, hashed over and re-proposed for over 2 years now. Ultimately what it comes down to is that good Role Play is not meter dependant...it's up to the player to play within the rules presented. As much as we'd like SL to be a video game, it's not. SL is a chat program with user created graphics and add-ons. Meters, whether Spellfire, DCS or whatever should not be the be-all-end-all to RP and combat, they are simply tools to enhance the RP at hand. Fair play and respect for the "other guy" is what makes it all fun. Good RP always offers an "out", meters don't give breaks to people because their connection crapped out, or the person got stuck on a sim handoff. This isn't WoW or a dedicated RP combat simulator, we are limited by SL's nature itself which IS a communication tools with fancy graphics.

I'm not trying to shoot your ideas all to hell, but it's an old issue that may never get resolved. Use the tools at hand and your imagination.

[Pamus Bing]

Slam it is really nice to see you back, I trust all is well with you?

To be honest I am of the same school of thinking as Slam, most things have been tried beforehand, we still return to SPD.

There was a skirmish in Finlanda fort last week; it was so laggy that the fighting had to be split between Britannica and MG that was an “out” situation, while we all regrouped, had a break then resumed. Good clean fun, more down to keyboard skills than meters, and no one trying to cheat. Just good clean RP.

[Hell's Captain Slam McMahon]

Thanks Pamus, it's good to be back. All is very well thanks. I hope things are well with you.

[Oma Larnia]

Huzzah Slam! I like this. I spent the last 5 days in a ROLEPLAY sim where they do have a meter but emphasize the ROLEPLAY so much that if one did not make a typed posting on there actions then the roleplay scene is called invalid. I managed to hunt down and put into jail a person that is top of the game as far as the -meter- was concerned merely by typing the actions rather than relying on the combat meter. I find that when we try to mix the combat meters with roleplay there is a fuzzy area that caused people to argue and fight over symantics and plausibility.

At this point for Jamaica - runaway bay I am going to be saying that the hack and slash style of combat is not welcome there. If people decide to declare war on my residents they need to come and roleplay the 'war' not just come in and use us for target practice then leave. that means from the declaration, conquering, aftermath whatever but there better be roleplay or I'm not putting my meter on there. If someone says they have a right to invade because they need somone in custody that is on my sim they better be prepared to detain the person and roleplay this rather than knock us all out and teleport away declaring victory. 12 months is a long time to wait for solid roleplayed combat senarios, I am quickly losing interest in mere 'contests' of internet connection speeds.

(Yes...I am in rant mode now but will update the Jamaica theme and policy cards probably tonight)

[Burnman Bedlam]

RP should always come first in my book. My take on the use of a meter, is if you are going to use one... it might as well be a good one. Anything I come up with will be an attempt to support RP, not replace it. In some instances, it's just good practice to have a standard way to judge an outcome. Otherwise most pen & paper games would never have required dice. :D Can sometimes smooth the differences between styles of RP, even offer scenarios which might not have popped up otherwise.

I agree with you though Oma, attacks shouldn't be "Rez, shoot, dance, TP home." I look forward to seeing what you've got in mind for Jamaica. :)